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Question: Let $x,y,z\in\mathbb{R}$. How to eliminate quantifier $t$ in “For all $t\in\mathbb{N}$, $x^t(x-y)(x-z)+y^t(y-z)(y-x)+z^t(z-x)(z-y)\ge0$” so that we have a statement about only $x,y$ and $z$?

My attempt:

Firstly, take $t=1$ and consider the case "all $x,y,z$ are non-positive"

Suppose $x(x-y)(x-z)+y(y-z)(y-x)+z(z-x)(z-y)\ge0$ and $x\le0,y\le0,z\le0$

Apply Schur's inequality to $-x,-y,-z$, we have$$x(x-y)(x-z)+y(y-z)(y-x)+z(z-x)(z-y)\le0$$therefore$$x(x-y)(x-z)+y(y-z)(y-x)+z(z-x)(z-y)=0$$it reduces to the case for equality of Schur's inequality.

Therefore in the case "all $x,y,z$ are non-positive" the statement is equivalent to$$[x=y=z\le0]\vee[x=y<0\wedge z=0]\vee[x=z<0\wedge y=0]\vee[y=z<0\wedge x=0]$$


Now assume one of $x,y,z$ is positive. Wlog $z=\max(x,y,z)>0$.

Since the inequality is homogeneous, scaling $x,y,z$ by a factor $1/z$ we may assume $z=1$. The statement becomes

$$x^t(x-y)(x-1)+y^t(y-1)(y-x)+(1-x)(1-y)\ge0\quad\forall t\in\mathbb{N}$$

Claim 1. When $t$ is even, the above inequality is true for all $x,y\in\mathbb{R}$.

I separated this to a new question.

So we only consider odd numbers $2t-1$,

Claim 2. The limit of the region$$\mathcal{R}_t=\{(x,y)\in\mathbb{R}^2\mid x^{2t-1}(x-y)(x-1)+y^{2t-1}(y-1)(y-x)+(1-x)(1-y)\ge0\}$$ as $t\to\infty$ is the region $\{(x,y)\in\mathbb{R}^2\mid\max(1-\max(|x|,|y|),x+y)\ge0\vee y=x\}$

I separated this to a new question.

Claim 3. $$\mathcal{R}_1\cap\mathcal{R}_\infty\subseteq\mathcal{R}_t\quad\forall t$$

Proof: I don't know how to prove.

For $t=3$ WolframAlpha says it is true.

For $t=5$ WolframAlpha says it is true.

For $t=7$ WolframAlpha says it is true.

How do you prove Claim 3?


If Claim 1,2,3 are proved, we will get the conclusion:

“For all $t\in\mathbb{N}$, $x^t(x-y)(x-z)+y^t(y-z)(y-x)+z^t(z-x)(z-y)\ge0$” is equivalent to: $$[x=y=z\le0]\vee[x=y<0\wedge z=0]\vee[x=z<0\wedge y=0]\vee[y=z<0\wedge x=0]\vee \mathbf P_x\vee\mathbf P_y\vee\mathbf P_z $$where$$\mathbf P_z:=[z>0]\wedge[x(x-y)(x-z)+y(y-z)(y-x)+(z-x)(z-y)\ge0]\wedge[\max(z-\max(|x|,|y|),x+y)\ge0\vee y=x]$$and define $\mathbf P_x,\mathbf P_y$ similarly.

hbghlyj
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  • Do you wish to eliminate just $t$ or $x,y,z$ and $t$? If it is the former, then I do not understand why you look into cases of $x,y,z$ being negative. – artemetra Jan 08 '25 at 16:21
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    If you're doing these calculations in floating point arithmetic you'll have underflows to 0 when you raise 1/2 to the power 1117. – Brian Borchers Jan 08 '25 at 16:21
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    @BrianBorchers SageMath does it in symbolic rational numbers. – hbghlyj Jan 08 '25 at 16:21
  • @artemetra I'm looking into cases of $x,y,z$ such that Schur's inequality is true for all positive integers $t$. For example when $x=\frac12,y=z=-\frac12$, Schur's inequality is true for all positive integers $t$. – hbghlyj Jan 08 '25 at 16:24
  • FWIW, Maple agrees with sage math that in rational arithmetic it's negative when t=1117 and positive when t=1116. – Brian Borchers Jan 08 '25 at 17:23

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