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Consider the left wheel and the right wheel of a car (say, rear wheels). The distances two wheels travel differ when they turn left or right. But, if the car starts traveling towards the north direction and ends traveling towards the same direction, and if the car doesn't rotate fully, then I suspect that the two distances are always the same.

wheels

Look at the picture. I'll use the angle (change of the orientation angle) instead of the curvature or the radius of curvature. The car (1) goes straight (angle = 0), (2) turns left (angle = $\pi/3$), (3) goes straight (angle = 0), (4) turns right (angle = $-\pi/3$). The two wheels travel the same distance at (1) and (3). The right one travels more in (2) and the left one travels more in (4). But in (2) or (4), the difference between two circular arcs depends only on the angle and the distance between the wheels, which is a constant. So (2) and (4) cancel out and two wheels travel exactly the same distance. That is,

$$\Delta d = d_1-d_2=r_1\theta-r_2\theta=(r_1-r_2)\theta$$

depends only on $r_1-r_2$ and $\theta$.

So the answer is yes in the trivial case shown in the image. But it's just the case when the curvature is (piecewisely) constant-valued and discontinuous, which is quite unnatural. In fact, the car moves smoothly and the curvature changes continuously and I cannot think of the blue and red curves as combinations of circular arcs and line segments.

How can I verify that it is still affirmative in the general case?

govindah
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    For a conventional car with front wheel steering, those are not tracks the front wheels would follow. The rear wheels might follow tracks like that. – David K Mar 15 '25 at 23:27
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    What makes you think the path consists only of line segments and circular arcs? – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 00:01
  • @DavidK Thanks, I'll consider rear ones instead. I edited. – govindah Mar 16 '25 at 00:22
  • @TedShifrin Since it is easy to start with. I can compute the whole things with elementary math. But the things in reality is more complicated. I'm asking how this can be described, computed, proved or disproved using calculus or possibly differential geometry. – govindah Mar 16 '25 at 00:24
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    https://www.desmos.com/calculator/xjmluxl2nh the left and right tire paths resemble a zero-point-turn john deer than a car, but you can play around with the axel width and integrate in terms of the arc lengths. – Tayler Montgomery Mar 16 '25 at 02:07
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    A very nice question. A simple thought experimental of a car turning a corner makes it intuitive that they can. From a auto mechanical point of view this is called the "differential" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_(mechanical_device) (not much math there but confirmation. – fleablood Mar 16 '25 at 16:38
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    This property (specifically, that the orientation of the car is a function of the axle-rotations of the two wheels) is what makes the “south pointing chariot” mechanism work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-pointing_chariot – RLH Mar 16 '25 at 17:51
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    @fleablood There's a nice 1937 video on how the differential works. – Rodrigo de Azevedo Mar 17 '25 at 12:23
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    Just curious, is the first paragraph in quotation markdown, a quote from somewhere? – Andrew T. Mar 17 '25 at 14:26
  • @AndrewT. I use quotation markdown syntax ">", and I didn't quote from anywhere; I wrote it. – govindah Mar 17 '25 at 14:36
  • You need to add an assumption that the road is flat. A pothole or dip that only affects the right wheels will add travel distance to them. – yesennes Mar 17 '25 at 16:04
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    Is the road's surface completely flat or is there camber to one side? Is the driver centered in the vehicle or on one side? Are the steering wheels also providing motive power (FWD) or does that come from another axle (RWD) ? All these points will have an effect in the real world - might be worth asking the same question in mechanics.SE – Criggie Mar 18 '25 at 10:11
  • A pragmatic test would be to check whether the relative position of the vents changes over time; I could not observe that they had different positions even after longer periods of time... – Manfred Weis Mar 18 '25 at 15:39
  • Nice problem, in addition to avoid full turns (sometimes called winding number) as @TedShifrin pointed out, we must also take the hight of the trajectory into account. – AD - Stop Putin - Mar 19 '25 at 09:03

3 Answers3

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This is a nice question. Assuming the car makes no full rotation, you are correct in your assertion when the path is gently curved.

Let $\alpha(s)$ be the position of the center of the axle (assuming it's the rear axle and can't turn). Then $\alpha'(s)$ is orthogonal to the axle, and we can assume $\|\alpha'(s)\|=1$. Let $\alpha'(s)=T(s)$ and say $T(s),N(s)$ forms a positive-oriented orthonormal basis for each $s$. We have the equation $T'(s)=\kappa(s)N(s)$, where here $\kappa$ has a sign. The two wheels are at positions $\beta_\pm = \alpha \pm \lambda N$, where $2\lambda$ is the length of the axle. The basic curvature equations are $T'=\kappa N$, $N'=-\kappa T$, and so $$\beta_\pm' = \alpha'\pm\lambda N' = T\mp\lambda\kappa T = (1\mp\lambda\kappa)T.$$ The distances the wheels travel are given by$^*$ $$\int\|\beta_{\pm}'(s)\|ds = \int ds \mp \lambda \int\kappa\, ds.$$ The first term gives the distance traversed by $\alpha$. It is well-known (see, e.g., section 3 of chapter 1 of my differential geometry text, linked freely in my profile) that $\int \kappa\,ds$ gives the net change of the angle of the axle. Your assumption, then, is that this is $0$ (and no multiples of $2\pi$ are involved). Therefore, both $\beta_+$ and $\beta_-$ traverse the same distance.

$^*$I assumed here that $1\pm\lambda\kappa\ge 0$. However, if one quantity changes sign, then there will be a discrepancy, as one integrand will be $1+\lambda\kappa$ (say, with $\kappa$ large positive) and the other $\lambda\kappa-1$. So the difference of the integrals will amount to twice the distance traveled by the center of the axle on that interval. Of course, physically, this means that one of the wheels stops and reverses direction for a while. Is this allowed? It typically means there’s a cusp in the trajectory of that wheel.

Ted Shifrin
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  • How beautiful. So $N$ is not the usual unit normal vector defined by $N(s)=\frac{T'(s)}{||T'(s)||}$. Instead, $N$ is the leftward direction with respect to $T$ and $\kappa(s)$ is signed. I understand that following your setting, it is the case that $\kappa(s)=||T'(s)||$ if it's turning left, and $\kappa(s)=-||T'(s)||$ if it's turning right. But I have a question that I don't understand: why is $N'=-\kappa T$? Does it follow from $T'=\kappa N$? – govindah Mar 16 '25 at 15:19
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    Yes, as usual, differentiate $T\cdot N=0$. – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 15:20
  • Oh, it was quite elementary. Since $0=(T\cdot N)' = T'\cdot N + T\cdot N'=\kappa+T\cdot N'$, we have $N'=(N'\cdot N)N + (N'\cdot T)T=-\kappa T$. Thanks. – govindah Mar 16 '25 at 16:07
  • So, provided that $1\pm\lambda\kappa\ge0$ and that the car's final orientation matches its initial orientation (without full rotations), the distance covered by each wheel equals the distance traveled by the center of the axle. Thanks for your answer. – govindah Mar 16 '25 at 16:19
  • What scenario are you concerned with in the footnote? There’s some nice math (essentially an application of Stokes’ theorem) to show that the orientation of the rear axle is a function of the net difference in rotation-around-the-axle of each of the two wheels, and therefore of the net forward-minus-backward motion of the wheel hubs. Is your caveat about “forwards-minus-backwards” travel being different from “absolute travel distance”? – RLH Mar 16 '25 at 17:59
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    @RLH I’m saying that if $|\kappa|$ exceeds $1/\lambda$, then one wheel will “kink” and start to move backwards (even with the center of the axle still moving forward with speed $1$, and then the distances traveled by the two wheels will be different. – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 19:15
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    @govindah You might find my differential geometry text of interest. It’s freely available at the link in my profile. In particular, check out exercise 27 on p. 22 for a problem rather similar to yours in scope. – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 19:19
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    I'm too much an engineer and not enough of a mathematician to follow this answer in full, but I think a little more consideration should be given to the fact that a full 360° turn (or any sequence of turns with nonzero winding number) would constitute a trivial counterexample, rather than just a brief mention of "assuming the car makes no full rotation". At least, that was the first thing that came to mind when I was reading the question, and I considered answering it with said counterexample before realizing I don't have the mathematical vocabulary to fully formalize it. – Hearth Mar 16 '25 at 19:22
  • @Hearth The OP ruled that out at the beginning. And I made mention that no factors of $2\pi$ appear when we compute the integral of curvature. Of course, a closed circular path illustrates perfectly how the two distances can be different in that event. – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 20:06
  • @TedShifrin I don't see anything ruling that out in the question, but perhaps I just don't recognise it. I've not done much in mathematics (rather than engineering or physics) in quite a long time. – Hearth Mar 16 '25 at 20:09
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    @Hearth OP said "If the car doesn't rotate fully." This means that the net angle through which the car turns must be $0$ (since OP also said that the beginning and ending orientations were the same), rather than a multiple of $2\pi$. – Ted Shifrin Mar 16 '25 at 20:10
  • @TedShifrin Ah, so I just managed to completely overlook the obvious! – Hearth Mar 16 '25 at 20:11
  • So (to be clear), your caveat is fundamentally about the difference between looking at distance traveled vs. net forwards-minus-backwards movement of each wheel. If the wheels only ever move forwards both quantities are the same (and the difference between them for the two wheels is proportional to the net rotation of the chassis), if a wheel moves backwards, then its distance traveled is no longer the same as the forwards-minus-backwards distance. – RLH Mar 16 '25 at 20:27
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A stronger and more precise statement about the relationship between the wheel motions and the rotation of the chassis is “The total rotation of the chassis is proportional to the difference between the forwards-minus-backwards motions of the two wheels”.

If we take the rolling velocity of the left and right wheels as $\dot{\alpha}_{1}$ and $\dot{\alpha}_{2}$, the wheel radius as $R$ and the length of the axle as $L$, the turning velocity of the axle is

$\dot{\theta} = (-\dot{\alpha}_{1} + \dot{\alpha}_{2})\frac{R}{L}$.

Factoring out the time portion of the derivative makes infinitesimal changes in $\theta$ depend directly on infinitesimal changes in the roll angles $\alpha$,

$d\theta = (-d\alpha_{1} +d\alpha_{2})\frac{R}{L}$,

such that we can express the derivative of the axle orientation with respect to the wheel roll angles as the one-form $A$

$\frac{\partial \theta}{\partial \alpha} = \overbrace{\begin{bmatrix} -1 & 1 \end{bmatrix}}^{A}\frac{R}{L}$.

This one-form is constant, such that its exterior derivative (i.e. curl) is zero. This means that orientation is conservative with respect to the roll angles of the wheels: once the vehicle has been placed on the ground, the total change in orientation is a function of the net angles that the wheels have rolled through, and independent of the intermediate roll angles they passed through to get there. Here, specifically, the orientation relative to the starting orientation is proportional to the difference between the net angle each wheel has rolled through,

$\Delta\theta = (-\Delta\alpha_{1} + \Delta\alpha_{2})\frac{R}{L}$

The net forward-minus-backward motion of each wheel (measured at its hub) is directly proportional to the net roll angle of the wheel around its axle,

$n = R\Delta\alpha$,

so the orientation can also be expressed in terms of the net forwards-minus-backwards motion of each wheel,

$\Delta\theta = (-n_{1} + n_{2})/L$.

This measure of rotation change of the chassis distinguishes between returning to the original orientation and making a full rotation, so we can say that for a system at $\Delta\theta=0$, the net forward-minus-backward motions of the two wheels are equal.

——

As noted in https://math.stackexchange.com/a/5046155/646444, this is not quite the same as asking if the wheels have both traveled the same distance — if the curve becomes tight enough that the radius of curvature is less than $L/2$, one of the wheels will be moving backwards during that time. If this backwards motion counts as positive term for “distance traveled”, then “distance traveled” will not be the same as “net forwards minus backwards motion”.

——

The underlying math here is that $A$ defines a “holonomic constraint”, i.e., a set of relationships between derivatives of two subsets of a system’s configuration variables that is “integrable” into a functional relationship.

Note that this property does not hold for translational motion: Knowing the net roll angles of the wheels does not tell us how far the car has moved, and we would need the full history of the roll angles to reconstruct this motion. This gets into the idea of “nonholonomic constraints” that relate derivatives of subsets of a system’s variables, but cannot be turned into a functional relationship. (This topic requires a bit more involved discussion than seems appropriate here; the short form is that establishing that the exterior derivative of $A$ was zero was a special case of a more general check to see if a system is holonomic or nonholonomic.)

RLH
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Yes you are 100% correct for the simple reason that circumference is a linear multiple of radius. Therefore even if the centre of your vehicle makes a wide radius $R$ turn in one direction of $n$ radians followed by a narrow radius $r$ turn in another direction of $n$ radians, in a vehicle whose wheels are $2w$ apart, the difference in the distances travelled by the two wheels is always $((R+w)n-Rn)-((r+w)n-rn)=wn-wn=0$

Robert Frost
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