If eccentricity of ellipse is known, what is the position of the biggest such ellipse that can be inscribed into square? I could find the answer on the web – the biggest ellipse is positioned with its axes parallel to diagonals of the square, touching all four sides of the square. But no proof of this fact was given. I provide below my own proof of this statement.
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Thanks for comment! sounds like a solid alternative proof sketch – Vladimir_U May 28 '24 at 19:53
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yes, that all works, agree, any ellipse in square can be transformed into circle, while square is made a rhombus, not just one that is with its axes along diagonals of square, that is the point I needed to see to convince myself that you are right, thanks! – Vladimir_U May 28 '24 at 21:03
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found that link, it actually confirms my initial thought (which I probably wrongly dismissed in my last comment) that ellipse rotated 45 degree cannot be transformed into circle by stretching along y axis alone, this means that alternative ellipse that stands with its axes parallel to sides of square and touches just 3 sides (and square is 45 degree rotated) will still be ellipse after square is transformed into rhombus, and biggest ellipse in rhombus is bigger than inscribed circle, so I don't see again how your argument will work here... – Vladimir_U May 28 '24 at 22:31
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https://computergraphics.stackexchange.com/questions/8770/how-can-i-transform-an-ellipse-into-a-circle – Vladimir_U May 28 '24 at 22:32
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Reading your question again. I guess I was taking it as obvious that the ellipse axes should be parallel to the square diagonals, but that is exactly what you set out to prove. Sorry – Will Jagy May 29 '24 at 00:19
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1to Will Jagy> thanks for confirming, I was worried (because I am not super good with ellipses) that you gave one sentence proof here and my exercise with director circle is too much "overproving", yes, I was proving "obvious" thing that biggest ellipse must be along diagonals of square, I decided to prove it because it is not the case for rectangle of various parameters inscribed in square as I showed below – Vladimir_U May 29 '24 at 07:02
2 Answers
- Considering the following Lissajous ellipse, $\theta \in (0,180^\circ)$:
$$\sin^2 \theta=x^2-2xy\cos \theta+y^2$$
- Ellipse area
$$A=\pi \sin \theta$$
As $\theta$ varies, we have only one degree of freedom to inscribe an ellipse by a given square regardless the eccentricity of an ellipse. The largest ellipse should be a circle when $\theta=90^\circ$.
Semi-axis lengths
$$\sqrt{2} \cos \frac{\theta}{2}$$
$$\sqrt{2} \sin \frac{\theta}{2}$$
- Eccentricity
$$e= \begin{cases} \sqrt{1-\tan^2 \frac{\theta}{2}}, & \quad \text{for} \quad \theta \in (0, 90^\circ) \\ \\ \sqrt{1-\cot^2 \frac{\theta}{2}}, & \quad \text{for} \quad \theta \in [90, 180^\circ) \end{cases}$$
- Combining both cases
$$4(1-e^2)=(2-e^2)^2(x^2+y^2) \pm 2x y (2-e^2)e^2$$
- Fixing eccentricity gives one kind of ellipse with two possible orientations.
- Please refer to my older post for Lissajous ellipse here.
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Thank you for your effort, but as it was the case with proof suggested by Will Jagy in comments to my question (and I think he agreed with my arguments at the end), I don't see again how you prove that ellipse which stands in square with its axes parallel to sides of this square is smaller than one placed with its axes parallel to diagonals, I understand that word "inscribed" in my question may be misleading, but it should be clear from question itself that I don't mean that ellipse nervelessly touches all sided of square, there are only 2 such ellipses as you pointed out with equal area – Vladimir_U May 29 '24 at 10:21
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and they are indeed the biggest ones, but we need to prove that ellipse that doesn't touch all sided cannot be bigger, as it is the case for rectangle of given ratio of its sided inscribed into square, if rectangle is "fat", you better place it not along diagonal but parallel to side of square. Maybe I am missing something in your proof but at least I don't see consideration of such ellipse on nice chart that you provided – Vladimir_U May 29 '24 at 10:26
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should be "ellipse that doesn't touch all sides cannot be bigger" above, sorry – Vladimir_U May 29 '24 at 10:34
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Inscribing implies touching four sides. See more for convex quadrilateral here. – Ng Chung Tak May 29 '24 at 11:24
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If we assume "touching all sides" for "inscribed", there is nothing to prove here, only one ellipse (up to additional symmetric one) is possible, that's why I of course assumed "placed inside" for "inscribed", which is of course clear from my proof of this statement and my example with rectangle inscribed (placed inside) into square – Vladimir_U May 29 '24 at 11:40
It is interesting to note that position of the biggest ellipse of given eccentricity inscribed into square does not depend on eccentricity, although it is not the case for position of the biggest rectangle, with given ratio of its biggest to smallest sides, which can be inscribed into square. If rectangle is “thin” like grey one in $picture 1$ (ratio of lengths of biggest to smallest sides is high), it will be positioned along diagonal of the square, if rectangle is “fat” (ratio is close to $1$), it will be positioned with its shorter sides parallel and touching opposite sides of rectangle. If a square has side length $1$, the brake-even rectangle with sides $1$ and $ sqrt{2} – 1$ can be inscribed into square both with its sides parallel to diagonals of rectangle and with its sides parallel to sides of rectangle as shown in $picture 1$ below.
Proving that the biggest ellipse of any given eccentricity inscribed into square is positioned with its axes parallel to diagonals of the square is equivalent to proving that the smallest square, in which ellipse of given eccentricity is inscribed, is the one with its diagonals coinciding with axes of ellipse.
Consider arbitrary ellipse $Q$ and its director circle $O$, shown in $picture 2$. Director circle is a locus of all points from which ellipse is viewed at $90°$ angle. Let point $A$ be on a major axis of ellipse $Q$, if we draw lines $AB, BC, CD$ tangent to ellipse, encompassing it clockwise, with points $B,C,D$ on circle $O$, because $AC$ will be a diameter of circle $O$ (since $∠ABC$ is $90°$), it follows that $∠CDA$ is $90°$ and $AD$ is tangent to ellipse $Q$, so that we created a rectangle $ABCD$, in which ellipse $Q$ is inscribed, moreover, because $A$ is on major axis of ellipse and director circle shares center with its ellipse, it follows that points $B,D$ are on minor axis of ellipse and $ABCD$ is a square.
If for every possible position of point $A’$ on circle $O$ we create rectangle $A’B’C’D’$ through same steps as we did for square $ABCD$, we will create a set $S$ of all possible rectangles, in which ellipse $Q$ is inscribed, while touching all four sides of these rectangles. If for each rectangle $A’B’C’D’$ in set $S$ we create a square $EFC’D’$, extending the short side of $A’B’C’D’$ to the length of its long side, as shown in $picture 2$, we will create a set $T$ of all possible squares in which ellipse $Q$ is inscribed, while touching three sides of these squares. To prove our statement it is enough to prove that among all squares in set $T$ square $ABCD$ is the smallest, because any square in which ellipse is inscribed, while touching less than three sides, can either be reduced in size while containing same ellipse, or, if ellipse touches two opposite sides of that square, ellipse can be shifted within that square parallel to these sides, so that it start touching three sides of that square. We note that because all right triangles $A’C’D’$ have the same length of hypotenuse $A’C’$ - diameter of director circle $O$, and all corresponding squares in set $T$ have side length equal to the length of the longest cathetus among $C’D’, D’A’$, it follows that among all squares in set $T$, the smallest one is $ABCD$ and that proves our statement.
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