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Computing factor groups when groups are of finite order is no problem, but when the group is of infinite order I struggle. I have looked at many solutions and really(!) tried to understand them with no luck. In my attempt to understand this, I saw that there are different ways to go about this. Some look at the cosets, and others use the first isomorphism theorem. No matter how hard I try, I am not able to understand any of them. For example $( \mathbb Z \times \mathbb Z \times \mathbb Z_8 )$ $/ <(0, 4, 0)> $ or $(\mathbb Z \times \mathbb Z \times\mathbb Z)$$/<(3, 3, 3)>$ or $(\mathbb Z \times \mathbb Z)$ $/ <(1 , 2)>.$ These are just examples from my book (and I know what the answer is going to be).

My questions are; how does one go about to solve this (in the easiest, beginner friendly way)? I need a dummies step by step explanation, because I dont see the point of the steps taken.

User
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anonymous
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2 Answers2

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To explain this concept, I'm going to explain $(\Bbb{Z} \times \Bbb{Z} \times \Bbb{Z})/\left<(3, 3, 3)\right>$ because I think it's the easiest to understand.

Let's try to understand this in terms of a few elements. Let's say we have the identity $(0, 0, 0)$. What elements are in the coset $(0, 0, 0)+\left<(3, 3, 3)\right>$? Well, since $(0, 0, 0)$ is just the identity, the coset simply becomes $\left<(3, 3, 3)\right>$, so any element in the normal subgroup is part of the coset that the identity is in.

Now let's look at $(0, 0, 1)$. Is this in the same coset as $(0, 0, 0)$? Well, no, because there's no way $(0, 0, 1)$ can be found by some multiple of $(3, 3, 3)$. Well, then, what elements are in this coset? We can add $(3, 3, 3)$ to it to find $(3, 3, 4)$. We can subtract $(3, 3, 3)$ from it to find $(-3, -3, -2)$. The normal subgroup $\left<(3, 3, 3)\right>$ contains any element in the form of $(3z, 3z, 3z)$ for $z \in \Bbb{Z}$ and we can add that to $(0, 0, 1)$ to find that it shares a coset with all elements in the form of $(3z, 3z, 3z+1)$ for $z \in \Bbb{Z}$.

Now, by a very similar argument, we can understand the coset containing $(0, 0, 2)$ as all of the elements in the form $(3z, 3z, 3z+2)$ and the coset containing $(3, 2, 1)$ as all of the elements in the form $(3z+3, 3z+2, 3z+1)$.

However, sometimes, this won't be the best way to understand the coset. For example, if we use this with $(3, 3, 4)$, we get $(3z+3, 3z+3, 3z+4)$. However, if we subtract $(3, 3, 3)$ from this, we get $(3z, 3z, 3z+1)$ which shows that this is in the same coset as $(0, 0, 1)$, as we found earlier. Our question now is: For which elements can we simplify the coset like this?

Well, in this example, we subtracted $(3, 3, 3)$ because all of the elements were greater than or equal to $3$. Therefore, we can rule out all of those elements. Also, if we had an element like $(-1, -2, -3)$, we would add $(3, 3, 3)$ so we weren't working with negative numbers. Therefore, we can rule out all of those elements.

Thus, if all of the elements can't be negative and all of the elements can't be greater than or equal to $3$, there must be some element that is $0 \leq x < 3$. This element can come from $\Bbb{Z}_3$. However, once we have that element, we can choose the other two elements to come from wherever they want because we have satisfied the conditions above once we have one element from $\Bbb{Z}_3$. Therefore, those other two elements can come from $\Bbb{Z}$. Thus, we have two elements from $\Bbb{Z}$ and one element from $\Bbb{Z}_3$, which results in a factor group of $\Bbb{Z} \times \Bbb{Z} \times \Bbb{Z}_3$.

This kind of exploration with these factor groups is how I like to understand them. I just kind of test certain elements and try to find patterns in where I can simplify my understanding of the cosets. Eventually, you'll learn easier ways to do this where you don't have to take as long and do so much experimentation, but for now, just try to explore the cosets and get a better understanding of them so you can compute the factor group.

Noble Mushtak
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  • First of all: thank you for your detailed and beginner friendly explanation I have some (maybe stupid) questions. Why do you 'rule out' elements? And in the second last paragraph, how do you get to the point .."all of the elements can't be negative and all of the elements can't be greater than 3, there must be some element that is 0 ≤ x < 3 " ?

    .

    – anonymous Mar 27 '16 at 20:01
  • @anonymous These are very good questions! I rule out elements in order to figure out which elements are in the same coset. When I ruled out all of the elements with all numbers greater than or equal to $3$, I did so because I knew that I could subtract $(3, 3, 3)$ from those elements until I got one of the elements to below $3$. For example, $(0, 0, 1)$ and $(3, 3, 4)$ are in the same coset, so I ruled out $(3, 3, 4)$. Therefore, all of the elements with all numbers greater than or equal to $3$ do not add any new cosets because they are in the same coset as another element. – Noble Mushtak Mar 27 '16 at 20:12
  • Once we ruled out elements with all numbers greater than or equal to $3$, we're left with elements that have at least one number $x < 3$. If there is some element that does not satisfy this condition, then it must have all $x \geq 3$, which is exactly what we ruled out, so it can't happen. Similarly, once we ruled out elements with all negative numbers, we're left with elements that have at least one positive number $x \geq 0$. Otherwise, if there is no positive number, then the element must be all negative, which is exactly what we ruled out, so it can't happen. – Noble Mushtak Mar 27 '16 at 20:14
  • That makes sense. Again: major thanks! When testing with elements, does it matter which elements one chooses? – anonymous Mar 27 '16 at 20:24
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    Yes, and no. Sometimes you have to play with "quite a few" until the patterns emerge. For example, the way I think of this particular example, is I pick one coordinate to keep track of which stop on the 3-cycle $[0]_3 \to [1]_3 \to [2]_3 \to [0]_3 \to \dots$ we're on, and the other two coordinates to keep track of "how many times" these two coordinates have looped around relative to the third ("positive" is "one way", "negative" is "the other"). – David Wheeler Mar 27 '16 at 20:33
  • @anonymous As long as you have a variety of choices, no, it doesn't really matter. However, you have to make sure that you have different examples to understand the factor group. For example, experiment with elements that are all negative, elements with some negative numbers and some positive numbers, elements with really big numbers, elements with really small numbers, etc. until you understand what's going on. – Noble Mushtak Mar 27 '16 at 20:33
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Let's look at the first one. What we really want to know is:

"When are two cosets $(a,b,[c]_8) + H$ and $(a',b',[c']_8) + H$ equal for the subgroup $H = \langle(0,4,[0]_8)\rangle$?"

By definition, when $(a,b,[c]_8) - (a',b',[c']_8) \in H$.

So this means:

$a = a'\\b - b' = 4k\\ [c]_8 = [c']_8.$

So, unless the first and the third "coordinates" match, we get different cosets. If these both match, we STILL get different cosets, unless the two "middle" coordinates are equivalent modulo $4$. In other words, to list ALL the cosets, we can:

  1. Pick any integer for our first coordinate, any any integer modulo $8$ for our third coordinate, and:

  2. Pick any equivalence class modulo $4$ for the middle coordinate.

While it is impossible to list all of these, we can "almost" do it, they are of the form:

$(a,[b]_4,[c]_8) + H$, which should strongly suggest the factor group is (isomorphic to):

$\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_4 \times \Bbb Z_8$

I do not know if you know the Fundamental Homomorphism Theorem, but if you do, we can reason this way:

Define $\phi:\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_8 \to \Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_4 \times \Bbb Z_8$ by:

$\phi(a,b,[c]_8) = (a,[b]_4,[c]_8)$ (basically, we keep everything the same but reduce the middle coordinate mod $4$).

I won't prove this is a homomorphism (I urge you to do so, though, it's not that hard). Now suppose $x \in \langle (0,4,[0]_8)\rangle$, so that: $x = (0,4k,[0]_8)$ for some integer $k$.

Then $\phi(x) = \phi(0,4k,[0]_8) = (0,[4k]_4,[0]_8) = (0,[0]_4,[0]_8)$, the identity of $\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_4 \times \Bbb Z_8$. this shows that $H \subseteq \text{ker }\phi$.

On the other hand, if $\phi(a,b,[c]_8) = (0,[0]_4,[0]_8)$ (that is $(a,b,[c]_8) \in \text{ker }\phi$), by the definition of $\phi$ we have:

$a = 0\\ [b]_4 = [0]_4\\ [c]_8 = [0]_8.$

The middle equation tells us $b = 4k$ (since $[b]_4 = [0]_4$), so we have:

$(a,b,[c]_8) = (0,4k,[0]_8) = k(0,4,[0]_8) \in H$.

Thus $\text{ker }\phi \subseteq H$, and subsequently, $\text{ker }\phi = H$.

Evidently, $\phi$ is onto (surjective-why?), so the Isomorphism Theorem tells us:

$(\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_8)/H \cong \Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z_4 \times \Bbb Z_8$

David Wheeler
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  • Thank you! This is an interesting approach. I follow the process that leads to the end result, but i dont see how or why we want to know when two cosets are equal for the subgroup? I see that this is the starting point, but what is the direct relation to potenial abelian groups it is isomorphic to. – anonymous Mar 27 '16 at 20:13
  • @anonymous That's always the starting point for understanding factor groups. To understand factor groups, you have to understand which elements are in the same coset and to understand that, you have to understand when two cosets are equal. Once you understand the similar property that puts elements in the same coset, you can pick one unique representative for each coset and then based off that, understand what the factor group is. – Noble Mushtak Mar 27 '16 at 20:21
  • I probably have a very trivial understanding of what factor groups are; that they consist of (distinct) cosets, and the order of these cosets are essential when classifying the factor group. So the reasoning here is that by finding the unique cosets, one finds their order and by this draws a conclusion? @NobleMushtak – anonymous Mar 27 '16 at 20:33
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    I wouldn't get so "hung up" on order, especially when the original group AND the quotienting subgroup are infinite. I would focus on their "behavior". You're going to get a "smaller" group when factoring by a subgroup, but there's not really a "hard and fast" rule that can easily sum up "how much smaller". Knowing which cosets are the same essentially tells you how much information you HAVE to specify to capture all of them. Sometimes (but not always) it's a finite amount of information. – David Wheeler Mar 27 '16 at 20:37
  • Also, from an algebraic standpoint, there is no difference between a quotient group, and a homomorphic image. In the same vein, there's no difference between a normal subgroup and a kernel of a homomorphism. Homomorphisms take a subgroup (the kernel) and chop a group up into "kernel-sized pieces". – David Wheeler Mar 27 '16 at 20:47
  • When you say that there is no difference between a quotient group and a homomorphic image, are you refering to the first isomorphism theorem? Very abstract... – anonymous Mar 27 '16 at 20:58
  • Yes! I agree, it is abstract. The value in it, is that we can focus on the homomorphisms, and not what the "elements" are. As you are discovering, explicit descriptions of cosets can be an arduous task. Whenever you have "sets of sets" it can be confusing to keep track of "what level you're on". Using homomorphisms as the main item of study keeps the group (original or quotient) elements "on the same level", making them "easier to think about". That's sort of the purpose of abstraction, to "unify" things that appear to be very different. – David Wheeler Mar 27 '16 at 21:03