1

I am a total beginner in set theory and currently work through Jech's "Introduction to Set Theory." In the first Chapter, Jech introduces the axioms of Existence, Extensionality, Comprehension, Pair, Union, and Power Set. However, he does not really explain what elements of sets are. Given this background, the following exercise is difficult for me to solve:

Exercise: Proof that the set of all sets does not exist. (Hint: Assume that a set $V$ exists such that $V = \{x \in V: x \notin x\}$).

What I am confused about:

What does $x \notin x$ even mean? To go deeper, two more general questions:

  1. What is an element of a set, and how is it defined? Is an element of a set always a set?

  2. And if an element of a set is not necessarily a set , then how can I even say something like "$x \notin x$"?

One way I tried to explain 1. and 2. to myself is as follows:

Given the axioms I mentioned above, I tried to construct a set that is not the empty set. To do so, I used the axiom of pair: Let $A, B$ be empty sets. Then, using the Pair Axiom, there must exist a set $B$ s.t. for all elements of $B,$ either $x = A$ or $x = B.$

Hence, $B = \{\emptyset\} \not= \emptyset.$ I also realise that the elements of sets created by the Pair Axiom must be sets.

Is that a solid start? How can I deduce from this that for all sets, it is true that all elements are sets? Maybe, by showing that any set that is not the empty set must have been generated via the Pair Axiom?

And once I have that, how can I interpret a statement like $x \notin x$?

Zius
  • 89
  • 4
    I do not understand the Close votes. These are important questions, which usually are not been well explained. – Yiorgos S. Smyrlis May 17 '25 at 10:37
  • 2
    This should definitely be reopened. Right now the question shows a lot of effort, and enough motivation is provided. These are important questions – Lorago May 17 '25 at 11:20
  • Even after the edit, this question has answers elsewhere, e.g. https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4720692. – Naïm Camille Favier May 17 '25 at 11:35
  • I'm sorry, but the linked discussion does not answer whether the fact that all elements are sets in ZFC can be derived from axioms, which I tried to do. Further, it does not explain how I can interpret $x \notin x.$ – Zius May 17 '25 at 11:45
  • Everything is a set because ZFC is a one-sorted first-order theory. $x \notin x$ means $\neg (x \in x)$. – Naïm Camille Favier May 17 '25 at 11:47
  • @NaïmFavier $\lnot (x \in x)$ means it is not true that $x$ is an element of $x$ itself. Are we even allowed to define something like $x \in x$ in general?

    Only one of $x \in x$ and $\lnot (x \in x)$ can be true, which one is it and why?

    – Zius May 17 '25 at 11:55
  • 1
    $x \in x$ is a perfectly fine first-order sentence with one free variable $x$ in the language of ZF set theory. Whether it is true or false (or neither) is governed by the axioms (in this case the axiom of regularity says that it's false), but this is not what the exercise is asking. – Naïm Camille Favier May 17 '25 at 12:06
  • 2
    Unsolicited advice: Jech does not do much to answer these philosophical questions, or explain how you should think about notions like "element" or "set" in the context of axiomatic set theory. I would suggest reading a different book. The first chapter of Set Theory: An Introduction to Independence Proofs by Kenneth Kunen does a wonderful job of explaining how to think about the universe of sets. I would suggest reading that chapter, and then returning to this question. – Joe May 17 '25 at 12:20
  • Answer : In ZF (and ZFC), all elements of sets are sets themselves; this is how sets are defined, as the objects you can manipulate in set theory (in the universe of discourse). Suppose that a set of all sets exists. Then suppose that $V$ is the set of all sets; we have $V = {x \in V : x \notin x}$, since no sets contain themselves due to the axiom of regularity. However, $V$ is a set and therefore $V \notin V$ by the axiom of regularity. Thus $V \in V$ by the last equation; this is a clear contradiction (see Russel’s Paradox). V is therefore called a proper class (since V cannot be a set) – Thomas Lacasse May 17 '25 at 12:27
  • Hello Everyone, thanks for the answers. Here is my takeaway:
    1. I should think of $x \notin x$ in the sense of a valid syntactic construction (from Naim).
    2. I can take that valid syntactic construction and bring it to a contradiction (from Thomas).
    3. If I want to understand more philosophical aspects, I should check out Kunen (from Joe).

    Thanks a lot. One more thing: the Axiom of Schema Comprehension seems really weird to me. If we can define a set such that element abide to any statement that we can possibly have about $x,$ we can say really weird things (like $x \in x$) :(

    – Zius May 17 '25 at 12:32
  • Also, we can prove the question in a different way: take the power set of V and show that the power set contains more elements than V. This would avoid using $x \notin x.$ – Zius May 17 '25 at 12:41
  • 1

1 Answers1

2
  1. What does x∉x mean?

That x is not an element of x

Ex. ∅∉∅ - As ∅ ( empty set) contains no elements

  1. We think of ∈ as a psuedo-relation between sets. So a∈b, means that a is a set, b is a set, and a is an element of b.

∈ - We leave it as a primitive, undefined notion besides the fact that it is binary ( acts on only 2 sets)

Another example of a psuedo-relation is =, It is also binary, and acts between sets in set theory.

We call them psuedo-relations because, we later use sets to define relations as sets of ordered pairs. However, =, ∈ are themsleves, not sets.

One can think of them as sets in the metatheory, meta-theoretical sets. However, that is not really an area that I will go down in this answer. If you want to learn more, you should consider a Introduction to Mathematical Logic, book.

  1. In Set Theory, our domain of discourse is just that of sets.

So we cannot consider sets of dogs or cats.

This restricts us, in a sense. However, it frees us, in that we can freely use =,∈ without worry.

Elements of sets aren't proved to be sets. that's a backwards way of looking at it. It's not an application of the Axioms, it's a feature of how the Language of Set Theory is Defined.

All Variables range over sets.

One might wonder how we can do mathematics without mention of numbers, functions, etc... well, it turns out our restriction to just sets isn't that big of an issue. We can, define all standard mathematical objects, as particular sets. So, our restriction to just sets, is not too prohibitive.

∈, = are ways of relating a set to another set, in Set Theory.

It's similar to if I have that a < b, and b is a number. How do I know that a is a number? Because < is a relation between numbers.

Also, If I am working in Peano Arithmetic ( The Theory of Natural Numbers), and I say x + y = z, there is no question that x,y,x are natural numbers.. because all the variables in Peano Arithmetic represent natural numbers.

You are welcome to think of {cat} as a set, however when we do mathematics we just restrict our attention to just the so called "hereditary sets". That is, sets whose elements are sets, and their elements are sets, etc... all the way down.

So, if you wish, whenever you see "x is set" in a set theory textbook, see it as a shorthand for: hereditarily, x is a set.

Note: X∈X is weird. We can consider cases like x = {x}, but they are certainly strange, so your hesitence around them is well-founded. ( Paul Cohen called x∈x a monstrosity) However, it is a perfectly valid statement in the Language of Set Theory, but you don't need to consider it really. We can show that all of the axioms of set theory hold, for sets that aren't like that. So, we can basically just work in a well-founded set theory ( one without any cases where x∈x). And so, even if cases like that exist, we can ignore them, in Standard Set Theory.

  • 1
    Thanks for your detailed reply! I guess, I have to open a Mathematical Logic book and see how we define using first order logic to REALLY understand what is happening here. I had the intuition that the relation symbol $\in$ would define sets, but then I read a post by Michael Weiss that said this was not true.

    I will explore more and revert here should I have more questions!

    – Zius May 19 '25 at 15:38
  • 1
    Happy to Help. Yes, Ultimately Jech's Set Theory is working inside a First Order Theory of Predicate Calculus. Without learning, some things will be hazy. Of course, its not a strict prerequesite- but some things are handwaved a bit. – Michael Carey May 19 '25 at 15:54
  • Good thing is I worked through first order logic as I finished Mileti's Book "Modern Mathematical Logic." So I now do have a better sense of sets in general. But when working through the mentioned book, I skipped the Set Theory part sadly ... time to revert to it!

    May I ask why you say "pseudo" relation? Can we not use a language with a binary relation $\in$ and some structure to get a more precise definition of sets?

    – Zius May 19 '25 at 16:46
  • We can, but then we have to distinguish between a binary relation in our meta-theory, and a binary relation inside our theory. Saying "psuedo" is my way of maintaining that distinction. – Michael Carey May 19 '25 at 17:40
  • Alright, thanks!! – Zius May 19 '25 at 17:56