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I (and possibly others) naively thought of $\forall$ as an infinite conjunction (only vaguely aware of others saying to avoid this interpretation of the $\forall$ sign). Years later I'm confronting this belief. I've read over Derek Elkins' blog post on the matter. I only partially probably have the logical prerequisites to approach the problem, but I'm first trying to state rigorously what I want to say. In what follows, infinitary logic is required as otherwise you can't talk about infinite conjunction.

Progress towards defining the problem so far: The first issue with comparing $\forall xP(x)$ and $\bigwedge_{i\in\mathcal{I}}\phi_i$ is that the $\phi_i$ have nothing to do with $P$. So I can narrow my question: I want $\phi_i$ to be related to $P$. But something like $\bigwedge_{i\in\mathcal{I}}\forall xP(x)$ would be silly. This made me realize: what I really need is a set $\mathcal{U}$ of constant symbols, and for any $c\in\mathcal{U}$ to let $P(c)$ be the resulting formula you get when free occurrences of $x$ in $P(x)$ are substituted for $c$. Now we're closer to stating a comparison that makes sense: what is the difference between $\forall xP(x)$ and $\bigwedge_{x\in\mathcal{U}}P(x)$? Moreover, since we are firstly intrested in the $P(x)$ from finitary logic, we'll say that $P(x)$ is definable in finitary logic (even though our background is infinitary logic). Furthermore, for simplicity, right now I'm only interested in $P(x)$ being a unary predicate - or you can think of it as being a well-formed formula of finitary logic with precisely $1$ free variable. The remaining choice is how we define $\mathcal{U}$.

Decision 1: Are constants in the set of constant symbols only given by extensions by definitions or can they also be created by extension by function names? See here and here for the respective differences. Essentially, extension by names doesn't require uniqueness whereas an extension by definitions does. If we allow a constant $c$ of $\mathcal{U}$ to be produced by extensions by names, then $\forall xP(x)\leftrightarrow\bigwedge_{x\in\mathcal{U}}P(x)$ holds because we can create a constant with only the defining axiom $c=c$, and since $c$ has essentially no properties particular to it, if we prove it for that constant $c$ then we prove the statement $\forall xP(x)$. So perhaps we want to define a constant symbol as degenerate if its defining axiom is satisfied by everything, i.e. if $Q(c)$ is the defining axiom of a constant $c$ but $\forall xQ(x)$ holds, then $c$ is a degenerate constant symbol. I am interested in what happens if we exclude degenerate constant symbols from $\mathcal{U}$, but it is not intuitive to me if it really makes sense to forbid all constant symbols that came from extension by names from being in $\mathcal{U}$.

Decision 2: If we only include $c$ in $\mathcal{U}$ where $c$ is borne of an extension by a definition, since we are in infinitary logic do we allow defining axioms to be infinitely long? If not, then the set of definable constants $\mathcal{U}$ is countable. Surely, if someone could affirm me, $\forall xP(x)\leftrightarrow\bigwedge_{x\in\mathcal{U}}P(x)$ does not hold in this case because for most semantics $\bigwedge_{x\in\mathcal{U}}P(x)$ ends up representing what's true only for definable elements of the model, which may be different from $\forall xP(x)$ which captures undefinable elements of the model.

Decision 3: If we only select constants borne of extension by definitions to belong to $\mathcal{U}$ and we allow infinitely long defining axioms for the elements $c$ of $\mathcal{U}$, is there a canonical way to do this?

Summary: In trying to make an infinite conjunction that is equivalent to $\forall xP(x)$, I don't know whether to include constant symbols in $\mathcal{U}$ that are only born of extension by names, and whether to allow infinitely long defining axioms for the constants in $\mathcal{U}$ and if so whether there is a canonical way to produce these infinitely long definitions. Does $\forall xP(x)\leftrightarrow\bigwedge_{x\in\mathcal{U}}P(x)$ hold for any of these variants?

Edits to explain how this is not a duplicate of: Are quantifiers only required because of infinite proposition chains?

  1. The first answer provides a justification of why formulas need to be finite. I understand that, and that at some point in your metatheory using infinite conjunction doesn't make sense. But that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if there is metatheoretical justification to treat the two as equivalent.

  2. The first two answers suppose that an infinitary conjunction is restrictive of your domain. But in this question, I have proposed several possible definitions for infinite conjunction. The first answer stated that infinite conjunction restricts you to a definable domain. I understand how that is restrictive, but metamath is complicated and I'm like someone to confirm that in the case of my problem. But the real point is that in this question I'm defining multiple other possible, different definitions of infinite conjunction which are not clearly addressed in any of the answers (at least not clearly to me anyways). As for the second answer, I do not yet know what $\bigwedge_{x\in\text{dom}(\mathcal{M})}P(x)$ means. After all, don't we need to turn elements of $\text{dom}(\mathcal{M})$ into syntactic objects each with property that they have before we can work with them in a proof? How to use infinitary logic to give each element of your domain a defining axiom seems highly nontrivial and I can't begin to wrap my head around it.

  3. The third answer mentions non-constructive proofs, but I've never seen a clear definition of what is or isn't constructive in math.

  4. The nature of the proposed duplicate is different. It was asked by someone who did not even understand how to formulate their question properly so a simple answer sufficed. Half the point of my question is trying to figure out what the right formulation of the question is, so naturally my question requires a different answer.

  • None of those answers address what would happen if extension by constant names was allowed into the conjunction. – Pineapple Fish Apr 26 '25 at 05:49
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA did you check out https://www.hedonisticlearning.com/posts/universal-quantification-and-infinite-conjunction.html ? This question may be a lot deeper than you realize – Pineapple Fish Apr 26 '25 at 06:09
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    The issue is that the expression "it works like" is not a formal definition. Personally, I've not seen textbooks where the universal is defined as a conjunction. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Apr 26 '25 at 06:54
  • @MauroALLEGRANZA Could we suppose defining axioms of infinite length to access uncountable domains? (I ask this in the question) Or since every consistent theory has a countable model that only analyzing a countable domains somehow suffice? – Pineapple Fish Apr 26 '25 at 07:08
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    You seem to be asking "how can I make infinite conjunctions range over the entire domain, in order to understand how they're different to universal quantifiers". I think the real answer is "you can't in a nice way, and that's how they're different!", and that's the point Elkins makes. The analogy starts and should end with this suggestive framing of the definition of the semantics (on the level of the metatheory): that $M = {m_1, m_2, \dotsc} \models {"}\forall x P(x){"}$ iff $P(m_1)$ holds in $M$ and $P(m_2)$ holds in $M$ and $P(m_3)$ holds in $M$ and... – Izaak van Dongen Apr 26 '25 at 08:29
  • $\exists$ may be easier to define. So, maybe you could define $\forall$ in terms of $\exists$ as follows: $\forall x: P(x) ~~\equiv ~~\neg \exists x: \neg P(x)$. – Dan Christensen Apr 26 '25 at 14:33
  • ...With an explicit domain set D: $~~\forall x\in D: P(x) ~~\equiv \neg \exists x\in D: \neg P(x)$ – Dan Christensen Apr 26 '25 at 14:51
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    The statement that a universally quantified formula is equivalent to a formula consisting of an infinite number of conjuncts is neither a description, nor a definition; it could only be a metaphor. Specifically, in the context of non-infinitary languages, it expresses an immediate self-contradiction. – Tankut Beygu Apr 26 '25 at 22:31

2 Answers2

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Long comment

There is a way to manage "added constants", also for the uncountable case, that is problematic. See Boolos, Burgess & Jeffrey's Computability and Logic textbook, regardind the semantics of quantifiers.

In a nutshell, the technique amounts to consider ad hoc extensions of the language.

But the issue still stands, for me, that IF we want to salvage the basic divide sytax-semantic (reasons: tradition, possibility of managing syntax with a computer) we cannot easily refer to domain D in the sytactical rules, because we want the freedom to change the interpretation without rewriting the formula.

The best we can do, IMO, is to use the "big conjunction" for the semantical specification:

$\forall x P(x)$ holds in D iff $\bigwedge_{i \in D} P(i/x)$ holds,

where we have used some standard way of assigning to variable $x$ a value $i$ (an onject of the domain).

See Ellis' initial paragraphs regarding the "conflation of syntax and semantic" and the domain.

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I'm not sure I fully understood the question, so I will not be claiming to answer it, and will simply mention something that may be relevant, which has showed up in my own research, which is that in some informal sense, it is impossible to ensure that every element of an infinite domain is named, without losing the compactness of FOL. The reason is quite simple, if each element of the domain was named, then in any language with at least one unary term $f$, we could consider the set of sentences

$$S=\{f(x)\neq x | x \in \mathcal{U}\}\cup \{\exists x[f(x)=x]\}$$

which is finitely satisfiable, but not satisfiable, under the assumption that each element is named by $\mathcal{U}$. I apologise if this isn't directly relevant to your question, it seemed too long for a comment

Carlyle
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