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I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but I really want to hear an answer from someone more knowledgeable. So the sequential criterion for the limit says that: if $f: A \subseteq \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ and $c \in \mathbb{R}$ is a cluster point of $A$ then the following are equivalent:

  • $\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L$
  • For every sequence $(x_n)$ in $A \setminus \{c\}$ that converges to $c$ the sequence $(f(x_n))$ converges to L.

The usual proof of this, first proves that (1) implies (2) and then we prove that the negation of (1) implies the negation of (2). My question is about the latter part. First we assume that $\lim_{x \to c} f(x) = L$ is false which means: $$ (\exists \epsilon > 0)(\forall \delta > 0)(\exists x \in A)(0 < | x - c | < \delta \land | f(x) - L | \geq \epsilon). $$ Using existential instantiation, we can call $\epsilon_0$ to one such $\epsilon$. We then build the following sequence $(x_n)$, for each $n \in \mathbb{Z}^+$ we define $x_n$ as a real number for which it is true that $$ (0 < | x_n - c |< \frac{1}{n} \land |f(x_n) - L|\geq \epsilon_0); $$ we know such $x_n$ exists because $\frac{1}{n}$ is positive and so by existential instantiation again, we guarantee one such element. After that we prove $(x_n)$ converges to $c$ but $(f(x_n))$ does not converge to $L$, which concludes the proof.


My problem is, according to the set theory book I was reading, when we picked for each $n$ a real number $x_n$ using existential instantiation we are actually using the axiom of choice. Why is this the case? I mean we're just using a logic law that should be independent of the axioms of set theory, so why are we assuming the axiom of choice when using existential instantiation an infinite number of times?

Ben Grossmann
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zlaaemi
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    The statement of the axiom if choice is this: You can use existential instantiation an infinite number of times. If you believe that is true without formally stating it, that's fine... although, you might want to be careful, because there are mathematical systems where it is false. – Lee Mosher Mar 06 '25 at 21:36
  • @zlaaemi Arguably, the proof doesn't use the full power of the axiom of choice; a weaker axiom called the axiom of countable choice would be sufficient here. – Ben Grossmann Mar 06 '25 at 21:43
  • It is possible to (more or less) turn the axiom of choice into an axiom of logic instead of set theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_calculus. But the usual laws of logic just aren't enough. Your argument isn't completely formal and it's not possible to make it formal without additional axioms. – Stefan Mar 06 '25 at 21:55
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    @zlaaemi For absolute values, use |x| or \vert x \vert rather than \mid x \mid; \mid produces spacing that makes it better for the "such that" in set-builder notation or the "divides" symbol. – Ben Grossmann Mar 06 '25 at 21:55
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    Why does it constitute a function, ie a sequence? Why do you actually get a function from doing this infinite existential instantiation? This is, as @LeeMosher says, the axioms of choice: it gives you that an actual choice function exist. – Malady Mar 06 '25 at 21:55
  • By the way, this seems to be pretty much the same question: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/5011529 – Stefan Mar 06 '25 at 21:58
  • Another related question/answer: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/126010/continuity-and-the-axiom-of-choice – Giorgio Genovesi Mar 06 '25 at 21:59
  • @zlaaemi Perhaps you'd find the following generalized explanation intuitively satisfying: doing something once is simply applying a definition, doing that same thing finitely many times is justifiable by induction, but doing something infinitely many times requires a careful definition of what you mean. That's why, for instance, all finite sums of real numbers are well defined, but infinite sums require the definition of an "infinite sum" and might fail to be defined. – Ben Grossmann Mar 06 '25 at 22:03
  • @LeeMosher I was under the impression that the laws of logic and the laws of set theory were 2 different things, but if the axiom of choice is also a law of logic as you mentioned, then it makes sense that we're using it here. I am interested in knowing more about these mathematical systems where it is false. – zlaaemi Mar 06 '25 at 22:20
  • @BenGrossmann Thank you, this comment was really insightful, even if it's only an intuitive explanation. i guess every time we make a jump from finite to infinite we need to be careful. – zlaaemi Mar 06 '25 at 22:21

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