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Context and Motivation
I am an undergraduate student reviewing basic logic and quantifier manipulation in the context of a Calculus 1 course. Our Unit 1 Practice Problems include exercises on how to negate statements involving “for all,” “there exists,” and various numerical thresholds. One practice problem states (in an informal way):

“I have a friend, all of whose ex-boyfriends had at least two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name.”

My first (incorrect) attempt at negating this was:

“Each of my friends has an ex-boyfriend who had at most one sibling with a number of different vowels in their name different from three.”

However, I learned that the correct negation should preserve the property “exactly three vowels” and merely change the threshold “at least two” into “fewer than two.” In other words:

“All of my friends have at least one ex-boyfriend who has fewer than two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name.”

Despite understanding how to write the correct negation, I am struggling to grasp why the property (“exactly three different vowels”) remains the same in the negation, while the numerical condition (“at least two”) is what flips to (“fewer than two”).


What I Understand So Far

  1. The original statement can be parsed with quantifiers (schematically) as:
    $$ \forall (\text{friend } F) \; \bigl[\forall (\text{ex-boyfriend } B \text{ of } F) : \#\{\text{siblings of }B \text{ with exactly 3 vowels}\} \ge 2 \bigr]. $$

  2. The negation of $\forall x\, P(x)$ is $\exists x \, \lnot P(x)$.
    So it becomes:
    $$ \exists (\text{friend } F) \; \bigl[\exists (\text{ex-boyfriend } B \text{ of } F) : \lnot(\#\{\text{siblings of }B \text{ with exactly 3 vowels}\} \ge 2) \bigr]. $$

  3. Logically, $\lnot(A \ge 2)$ is $A < 2$. This is how “at least two” becomes “fewer than two,” leaving the property “exactly three vowels” intact.

  4. My confusion: Why do we not negate “exactly three vowels”? Why do we treat “exactly three vowels” as a fixed part of the statement, instead of flipping it to “not exactly three vowels”?


What I’ve Tried to help myself understand

  • I rewrote the statement as “Let $x$ be the number of siblings who have exactly three different vowels in their name. The original statement says $x \ge 2$.”
  • When negating, I replaced “$x \ge 2$” with “$x < 2$.”
  • Intuitvely, the negation needs to have the opposite truth value of the original statement. For this specific example, if I negate the property “exactly three vowels”, it would fail this requirement.

What I want to clarify
In general, when we have a statement of the form “$\#(\text{objects that satisfy property } P) \ge k$,” why is the correct negation “$\#(\text{objects that satisfy property } P) < k$” rather than “$\#(\text{objects that do *not* satisfy property } P) \ge k$” (or similarly, altering $P$ itself)?

Is there a systematic or formalized rule of thumb to decide which parts of a complex statement (the property vs. the threshold) remain unchanged during negation, and which parts flip?

Any step-by-step explanation or standard logical approach might help me understand where my initial thinking went wrong. I want to gain a solid understanding so I can apply it in future problems involving nested quantifiers and inequalities. Thank you for your time and expertise!

BRAD ZAP
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    It's worth noting that, once you've written the formula like $#{x : P}\geq k$, the subformula $P$ really has nothing to do with the logical structure of the overall statement. It's just a coincidence that $P$ happens to be another formula. You should treat ${x : P}$ as being an object itself, a set, and the property $P$ simply picks out what that the set is. The reason we don't negate $P$ is the same as the reason we don't negate $k$; because then we'd be talking about some completely unrelated object. – Jade Vanadium Dec 21 '24 at 15:43
  • "Each of my friends has an ex-boyfriend" Um.. what about friends that have no ex-boyfriends? First step should be "I don't have any friend that has..." and then "For all friends it is not true that ..." which can go to "for all my friends either a condition does not about but if it does then..." – fleablood Dec 21 '24 at 15:44
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    @fleablood The negation of $\exists x, \phi$ is always $\forall x, \neg \phi$, that portion of OP's negation is correct. This holds even if the domain of quantification is empty. If you had a friend with no ex-boyfriends, then it would be vacuously true that "all their ex-boyfriends have etc etc". – Jade Vanadium Dec 21 '24 at 15:48
  • The original statement isn't coherent, unlike, say, "I have friends, all of whose ex-boyfriends have..." or "I have a friend whose ex-boyfriends all have at least two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name." $\tag*{}$ The latter's negation is All my friends have no such property: all their ex-boyfriends have at least two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name, i.e., Each of my friends has this property: some ex-boyfriend of theirs lacks this property: having at least two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name, – ryang Dec 22 '24 at 03:02
  • i.e., Each of my friends has this property: some ex-boyfriend of theirs has fewer than two siblings with this property: having exactly three different vowels in their name, i.e., Each of my friends has an ex-boyfriend with fewer than two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name.

    $\tag*{}$ In any case, see whether these explanations help: Correct way to do logical negation? and Is a statement's negation "the opposite of" or "anything but"?

    – ryang Dec 22 '24 at 03:03
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    Here is another example: The negation of "I passed at least three maths exams" is "I passed at most two maths exams", not "I failed at most two non-maths exams" – Smiley1000 Dec 22 '24 at 08:36
  • @JadeVanadium I'm talking about the first attempt: "Each of my friends has an ex-boyfriend who...". That is not correct, is it? If friend Meg has not ex-boyfried at all then while it is true that all her ex-boyfriends smoke chocolate, it is not true that she has an ex-boyfriend who smokes chocolate. But you are correct about my very last statement. – fleablood Dec 22 '24 at 16:11
  • @fleablood It is correct. The original sentence can be summarized as $\exists(F\in\mathcal{F}), \forall(B\in\mathcal{B}_F), \phi$, which is "I have a friend ($F$) such that all their ex-boyfriends ($B$) satisfy property $\phi$". The negation is then $\forall(F\in\mathcal{F}), \exists(B\in\mathcal{B}_F), \neg \phi$, which is "Each/all of my friends has an ex-boyfriend who $\neg\phi$". Vacuous truths are unintuitive to some, but it's better than the alternative. You'll also notice that restricted quantification respects the same negation laws as unrestricted quantification. – Jade Vanadium Dec 22 '24 at 16:30
  • @fleablood I think you're getting confused with the unrelated rule $\forall x, \phi \implies \exists x, \phi$. About that, you're correct that that implication is invalid if (and only if) the domain of quantification is empty. However, that implication is unrelated to how the negation is simplified. – Jade Vanadium Dec 22 '24 at 16:44

1 Answers1

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Revised edition

The sentence is quite convoluted, mainly due to the need to manage differet sorts of objects: persons, names, vowels.

In order to do this, we can use suitable predicates: $P(x), N(x), V(x)$ as well as a relation $In(v,n)$ between vowels and names, $Fr(x,y)$, $Exb(x,y)$ and $Sib(x,y)$ for "to be friend of", "to be an ex-boyfriend of" and "to be sibling of".

Thus, for

“I have a friend, all of whose ex-boyfriends had at least two siblings with exactly three different vowels in their name.”

we have to start with a constant "I" and the fact that there is a friend of mine: $\exists x [P(x) \land Fr(x,I) \land \forall y (P(y) \land Exb(y,x) \to \ldots)]$

Now we can consider the part with the numerical quantifiers.

"At least two..." is $\exists w_1 \exists w_2 [P(w_1) \land P(w_2) \land Sib(w_1,y) \land Sib (w_2,y) \ldots \land (w_1 \ne w_1) ]$

Finally, for "Exactly three..." we need three variables for names and we have to express that they are the name of the $w_1,w_2,w_3$ siblings.

For each name $n$ we have: $\exists v_1 \exists v_2 \exists v_3 [V(v_1) \land V(v_2) \land V(v_3) \land In (v_1,n) \land In(v_2,n) \land In(v_3,n) \land (v_1 \ne v_2) \land (v_1 \ne v_3) \land (v_2 \ne v_3) \land \forall v (V(v) \land In(v,n) \to (v=v_1 \lor v=v_2 \lor v=v_3))]$

Why does the property “exactly three different vowels” remain unchanged?

This is not true, mainly because - as you have seen in previous formulas - it is not a property but a complex sentence,

In general, the rule of thumb to manage negation is simple: move the negation inside step-by-step.

We start negating the first existential quantifier to transform $\lnot \exists x$ into $\forall x \lnot$, and so on until we arrive at atomic formulas: either predicates, relations, or equality.

Thus, when we arrive at the negation of "at least two..." we will get:

$\forall w_1 \forall w_2 \lnot [P(w_1) \land P(w_2) \land Sib(w_1,y) \land Sib (w_2,y) \ldots \land (w_1 \ne w_1)]$

and moving it inside we arrive at the negation of the atoms. Negating "at least two...", we expect to produce "at most one..." and thus we will express it with:

$\forall w_1 \forall w_2 [ \ldots (w_1 = w_2)]$.

Similar wrt the negation of "Exactly three..."

$\forall v_1 \forall v_2 \forall v_3 [(V(v_1) \land \ldots ) \to \exists v (V(v) \land In(v,n) \land \lnot(v=v_1 \lor v=v_2 \lor v=v_3))]$

Also in this case, we will arrive at the negation of the atoms: $\lnot (v = v_1)$ etc.

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    I'm a bit confused. So what is the reason that we choose #(x)>=2 instead of #(x)=3 as our focus of the statement? – BRAD ZAP Dec 21 '24 at 18:16