6

This question was inspired by a question about countable subsets of the real line, in which the countable sets were compared to countable linear orders. It occurred to me that every such subset I could think of appeared to be order-isomorphic to a subset of $\mathbb{Q}$ that is closed in $\mathbb{Q}$.

I've come up with a rough idea for a proof, but I'm not certain it will actually work. I'm curious if there is an easy/standard proof or counterexample to the question:

Is every subset $S \subset \mathbb{Q}$ order-isomorphic to a subset $C \subset \mathbb{Q}$ such that $C$ is closed as a subspace of $\mathbb{Q}$?

I'll share my rough idea for a proof: We identify points in $\bar{S} - S$ in $\mathbb{Q}$ as limit points of $S$ in $\mathbb{R}$, which lie in $\mathbb{Q}$ but not $S$. Clearly $S$ must be countable, so we can enumerate these points, and we attempt to "remove" them one by one, by performing order-preserving operations that "move these points" to irrational numbers.

For each such point we translate $S$ in a possibly-piecewise fashion so that the sequences approaching this point of discontinuity approach an irrational number instead, then doing some kind of additional operations to get the rest of the points back in $\mathbb{Q}$. But it's not clear if we can do this in a way that gives us a "limit function" that is well-defined on $S$, nor if this approach can be done in a way that's "stable" enough that we can remove each bad point without creating new ones.

Edit: Wait a minute, instead of worrying about irrational numbers, can I just replace the $n^{\text{th}}$ element of $\bar{S} - S$ with an interval of size $\frac{1}{2^n}$ by adding $\frac{1}{2^n}$ to everything bigger than it? Addendum to edit: No I can't, two reasons why are provided in the comments. I'm not sure what I was thinking there.

  • With the approach suggested in your edit, you can end up translating point by sums of arbitrary subsets of ${1/2^n, n ∈ ℕ}$, potentially shifting some points into the irrationals. – Jean Abou Samra Sep 26 '24 at 21:04
  • Topologically yes, i.e. if $X$ is a subspace of $\mathbb Q$, then $X$ is homeomorphic to a closed subspace of $\mathbb Q$. – Ulli Sep 26 '24 at 21:08
  • 1
    Does the adding intervals even help with the simple $S = {2^{-k} \mid k \in \mathbb{N}}$? – aschepler Sep 26 '24 at 21:10

1 Answers1

6

One way is the following. You have that $(\mathbb{Q}\times\mathbb{Q},<_{lex})$ is order isomorphic to $\mathbb{Q}$ with the standard order by Cantor's theorem. Given $S\subseteq\mathbb{Q}$ then we can embed it into $\mathbb{Q}\times\mathbb{Q}$ via the map $s\mapsto (s,0)$. We have that $S\times\{0\}$ will be closed in $\mathbb{Q}\times \mathbb{Q}$, since any $(a,b)\notin S\times \{0\}$ either $a\notin S$ and $a\times\mathbb{Q}$ will be an open neighborhood of $(a,b)$ disjoint from $S\times\{0\}$, or $b\neq 0$ and $((a,b-\epsilon),(a,b+\epsilon))$ will be an open neighborhood of $(a,b)$ disjoint from $S\times\{0\}$. Of course $S$ and $S\times\{0\}$ are order isomorphic. Let $f:\mathbb{Q}\times\mathbb{Q}\rightarrow \mathbb{Q}$ be an order isomorphism, it will also be a homeomorphism. So $f(S\times\{0\})$ will be the desired set.

Edit: I will add a quick sketch as to why order isomorphisms are homeomorphisms. Let $L$ and $P$ be linear orders and $f:L\rightarrow P$ be an order isomorphims. For all $p,q\in P$ we such that $p<_P q$ we have that $(f^{-1}(p),f^{-1}(q))=f^{-1}((p,q)_{<_P})$. That is, the preimage of of a basic open set of $P$ is a basic open set of $L$, so $f$ is continuous. Similarly $a,b\in L$ such that $a<_L b$ we have that $f((a,b))_{<_L}=(f(a),f(b))_{<_P}$. That is, we have that the image of a basic open set of $L$ is a basic open set of $P$, so $f$ is open. $f$ is bijective since it is an order isomorphism, so $f$ will be a homeomorphism.

  • 1
    There's an order isomorphism between $(\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}, <_{\mathit{lex}})$ and $(\mathbb{Q}, <)$? – aschepler Sep 26 '24 at 21:08
  • 4
    @aschepler Both $(\mathbb{Q}\times \mathbb{Q},<{lex})$ and $(\mathbb{Q},<\mathbb{Q})$ are countable dense linear orders without end points. Cantor's Isomorphism theorem states they must be order isomorphic (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_isomorphism_theorem). – Giorgio Genovesi Sep 26 '24 at 21:10
  • 1
    I don't think an order isomorphism $\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q} \rightarrow \mathbb{Q}$ must be a homeomorphism. Even order isomorphisms $\mathbb{Q} \rightarrow \mathbb{Q}$ need not be homeomorphisms, for example the map that is the identity on the negative numbers and that adds $1$ to nonnegative numbers. – MartianInvader Sep 26 '24 at 21:13
  • 2
    @MartianInvader the function you mentioned is not surjective. – Giorgio Genovesi Sep 26 '24 at 21:13
  • 3
    The reason an order isomorphism is a homeomorphism is that the topology used here on $\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}$ is derived from $<{\mathit{lex}}$, (and not the product topology). That is, the open sets in $\mathbb{Q} \times \mathbb{Q}$ are unions of open intervals $(a,b) = {x \mid a <{\mathit{lex}} x <_{\mathit{lex}} b }$. – aschepler Sep 26 '24 at 21:28
  • 2
    @aschepler Thanks, I probably was ambiguous as to which topology $\mathbb{Q}\times\mathbb{Q}$ had. Ironically, the product topology is homeomorphic to the order topology of $\mathbb{Q}$ via another map. – Giorgio Genovesi Sep 26 '24 at 21:32
  • 2
    Thanks, I do see that the final mapping should be a homeomorphism. I was confused where we were changing the topology of $S$ along the way, but now I see it's in your initial order embedding where $S$ is mapped into a discrete set. – MartianInvader Sep 26 '24 at 21:36