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I think I have a big confusion in my understanding of smooth manifolds.

Here is the definition of smooth manifolds that I have

Let $M\subset\mathbb{R}^k$, we say that $M$ is a smooth manifold of dimension $m$ if each $x\in M$ has a relative neighborhood in $M$ that is diffeomorphic to some open subset of $\mathbb{R}^m$.

My confusion is the following : I have the feeling that it implies that $m=k$

Here is my reasoning : Let $x\in M$ and denote $W$ a neighborhood of $M$ such that $W\cap M$ is diffeomorphic to some open subset $U\subset\mathbb{R}^m$ through the parametrization $g : U\to g(U)$.

Since $g$ is a diffeomorphism, we can find $V$ an open subset of $\mathbb{R}^k$ such that $g : U\to V$ is a diffeomorphism between open subset of $\mathbb{R}^{m}$ and $\mathbb{R}^k$ but this is well known that this implies that $m=k$

I cannot see where I am wrong but I know that it is the case, if you could provide some helps in order to overcome this misunderstanding please.

One consequence of this is that when I got interested in the tangent space $TM_{x}$, proving that it was a n dimensional vector space was a $2$ lines proof since in my (possible false) setting the derivative at a point of my parametrization $dg_{u}$ is automatically invertible by the chain rule


I am using the following definition of a diffeomorphism : Let $f:X\to Y$ where $X\subset\mathbb{R}^k$ and $Y\subset\mathbb{R}^m$ are open subsets, $f$ is said to be a diffeomorphism if it is an homeomorphism such that $f$ is $C^1$ and its inverse $f^{-1}$ is also $C^1$.

G2MWF
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    You are confusing the domain and codomain of $g$. If $g:U \to g(U)$ then it makes no sense to consider $g^{-1}(U)$ – jjagmath Apr 22 '24 at 22:53
  • Thank you for pointing out this mistake ! – G2MWF Apr 22 '24 at 23:05
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    $g:U\to g(U)=W\cap M$ is a homeomorphism but $W\cap M$ is not open in $\mathbb R^k$ but it is only open in $M$ with the relative topology from $\mathbb R^k$. – Jochen Apr 23 '24 at 07:22
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    You should add the definition when a subset of $\mathbb R^k$ is diffeomorphic to an open subset of $\mathbb R^m$. Which textbook do you use? – Paul Frost Apr 23 '24 at 07:51
  • @Jochen It makes sense thank you for the comment ! I will try to see this on some examples. – G2MWF Apr 23 '24 at 08:37
  • @PaulFrost I am using Milnor’s book Topology from the differentiable viewpoint ! I will add it ! – G2MWF Apr 23 '24 at 08:38
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    It seems that you misunderstood Milnor's definition of smooth maps and diffeomorphisms. Milnor extends the "usual definition" for maps between open subsets of Euclidean spaces to maps between arbitrary subsets. See my answer to https://math.stackexchange.com/q/1842629. – Paul Frost Apr 23 '24 at 23:45
  • @PaulFrost Exactly ! Also I did not take care that his definition of diffeomorphism is decomposed on two parts (homeomorphism and the smoothness between general subset of $\mathbb{R}^n$) the latter requiring to specify when working on a smooth manifold, locally, a "classic" smooth function between open set. It is clearer now and your answer is very helpful as a complementary to the Milnor’s text, thank you a lot ! – G2MWF Apr 24 '24 at 08:26

2 Answers2

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In such situations it is always a good idea to look at examples. Let $k$ be arbitrary, and consider

$$M=\{(x,0,\ldots,0)\in\mathbb{R}^k\ |\ x\in\mathbb{R}\}$$

You can verify very easily that $M$ is diffeomorphic to $\mathbb{R}$, and thus it is a manifold of dimension $1$. Even though it is a subset of $\mathbb{R}^k$.

through the parametrization $g : U\to g(U)$.

I think you meant $g:W\cap M\to U$? Or vice versa.

Since $g$ is a diffeomorphism, we can find $V$ an open subset of $\mathbb{R}^k$ such that $g : U\to V$ is a diffeomorphism

No. In the example above we have a diffeomorphism

$$g:\mathbb{R}\to M$$ $$g(x)=(x,0,\ldots,0)$$

But there is no open subset $V$ of $\mathbb{R}^k$ that turns this into a diffeomorphism $\mathbb{R}\to V$.

Note that $M=W\cap M$ for $W=\mathbb{R}^k$. But $M$ is not open in $\mathbb{R}^k$, in fact it has empty interior. And thus invariance of domain does not apply.

Here is the definition of smooth manifolds that I have

Let $M\subset\mathbb{R}^k$

Finally note that in the above definition $\mathbb{R}^k$ is not really relevant. As the example above shows our $M$ can be embedded into any $\mathbb{R}^k$. The author gave such definition because it simplifies a lot. But generally one would start with something like: let $M$ be a Hausdorff space, sometimes paracompact, sometimes metrizable, typically second countable. It is a bit more complicated to define differentiability in such scenario, but only a bit.

So the most general definition does not require $M$ to be a subset of $\mathbb{R}^k$. Even though in fact these definitions coincide, due to Whitney embedding theorem. The point is that $\mathbb{R}^k$ is not necessarily important (unless you deal with some specific case in which it is).

freakish
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  • Thank you for the answer. I am trying to fully explore your example in order to make sense of this ! – G2MWF Apr 23 '24 at 08:42
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I believe you mean "$W$ neighbourhood of $x$", in general it is not possible to find a neighbourhood $W$ of $M$ such that $W \cap M$ is diffeomorphic to an open subset of $\mathbb R^m$. In that case, $g(U)$ is $m$-dimensional. Try to visualize it by taking $M=S^2 \subset \mathbb R^3$, $x$ the North Pole, and $W \cap M$ the upper half sphere without boundary. The latter is diffeomorphic to a disc in $\mathbb R^2$.

Gibbs
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  • Thank you for the answer ! You are right and its in line with comments I received ! I will take a look at your example as a second exercise ! – G2MWF Apr 23 '24 at 08:42