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Long ago I realized that manipulation of derivatives was possible using algebraic quantities. One could take a differential instead of derivatives $$ d[\sin x]=\cos x\ dx $$ $$ \frac{d[\sin x]}{dx}=\frac{\cos x\ dx}{dx}=\cos x $$ My question is about the analog of this process with integrals without a $dx$ for example $$ \frac{\int\sin x}{\int x} $$ Here $\int$ is the inverse of the $d$ operator. There is deliberately no $dx$ so the integrals cannot be evaluated in the traditional sense. This is more the foundation for an idea than anything explicit.

Has this been looked at by anyone in the past? Does anyone know of anything similar to this?


edited remarks

To clarify, consider $\int \sin x$. Because the input is not a differential but a finite quantity, it is expected that the integral would diverge to infinity. I desire to define how the integral diverges in a way like $$ \int \sin x=f(x)\int x $$

which is analagous to differentials (e.g. $d[\sin x]=\cos x\ dx$) and therefore the fraction $\frac{\int \sin x}{\int x}$ could be evaluated as a finite quantity $f(x)$.

I'm not looking for a simple "you can't do that" or the definition of an integral in the conventional sense. I want to know if anyone has explored this unconventional expression or has any insight into how it might be evaluated or even what it means.


Marked as a duplicate, but probably because my new idea goes against what we were all taught in calculus class.

eschavez
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  • The linked question gives the various functions of $\mathrm{d}x$ in integration. In short, it doesn't make sense to remove it if you have the integral symbol. However, you could get away with notating integration as an operator in the style of a function on another function (i.e., a functional). So something like $I(3x^2)=x^3+C$. It is quite common to do this with differentiation, e.g., $\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x}x^2=D(x^2) = 2x$. – Jam Jun 28 '20 at 22:29
  • This does not address my question – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 22:40
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    It did before you edited the question. It doesn't make sense to ask what an object would mean after making the notation for it - math works the other way around. First you consider how an object is constructed and then give it notation. What do you actually mean by $\int $ other than the regular integration operator? – Jam Jun 28 '20 at 22:42
  • As mentioned, it is the inverse of the differential operator $d[\cdot]$ – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 22:44
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    Then the previous comments and answers suffice. It is standard integration and can be notated appropriately. – Jam Jun 28 '20 at 22:45
  • It is the standard integral, yes, but it has an unconventional input. If no one has looked at this then that's an answer to my question, but the expression $\int\sin x/\int x$ is not standard integration. – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 22:49
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    You're missing my earlier point. Either $\int(\cdot)$ is the regular integral operator, in which case $\int(\sin x)$ and $\int(x)$ are perfectly well defined or it is an undefined symbol for something, in which case it is as unanswerable as the isolated question "what is $f(x)$". If there isn't a clear definition for something, then there is nothing anyone can possibly say about it, not that "no one has looked" at it. – Jam Jun 28 '20 at 22:54
  • Thank you for the continued discussion. I think you are not fully understanding my question. In my question the regular integral operator is being applied to an irregular input. – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 23:01
  • What is your intended input of $\int$ there? – Jam Jun 28 '20 at 23:02
  • I hope that somehow this process can generate an expression for the integral of any finite, non-differential quantity. For instance $\int[\sin x]$ or $\int[x]$. I added an example to my question to attempt to be more clear. – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 23:18

3 Answers3

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The general notation for integrals does not requires to write $\mathrm d x$. If $f$ is a function one usually defines $$ \int f = \int f(x)\mathrm d x $$ while for a more general measure $\mu$ one often finds $$ \int \mathrm d\mu = \int \mu(\mathrm d x) $$ So this is just a notation but it is as you say a useful notation since it emphasises the fact that the Lebesgue measure as nice properties under change of variable.

Then, I think your problem is not about the notation but more the problem of defining a continuous sum of non-infinitesimal quantities. Unfortunately, this only works if the quantity you want to sum is $0$ almost everywhere. So I would reserve a notation without $\mathrm d x$ to discrete measures. For example $$ \int_{x\in\mathbb{R}} f(x)\mathbf{1}_{x=c} = \int_{\mathbb{R}} f(x) \delta_{c}(\mathrm{d x}) = f(c) $$

LL 3.14
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  • Thanks for your answer, I edited my question to clarify what I mean by the integral, I hope that helps. I expect it to diverge to infinity, just as one might expect $dx$ to converge to zero, however it may still be possible to create an expression for the quantity. – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 23:14
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The real definition of, for example, Riemann integration is based on a partition of $[a,b]$, $P = \{ x_0 = a, x_1 , ... , x_{n-1}, x_n = b \}$ with $x_{i+1}>x_i$, and the lower sums $$ L(f,P) = \sum_{i=0}^{n-1} \inf_{z \in [x_i,x_{i+1})}f(z)(x_{i+1}-x_i) $$ and upper sums $$ U(f,P) = \sum_{i=0}^{n-1} \sup_{z \in [x_i,x_{i+1})}f(z)(x_{i+1}-x_i). $$ If for all $\varepsilon >0$, there exists a $\delta >0$ such that for some $\mathcal{P}_\delta$ satisfying $ \min_{i} (x_{i+1}-x_i) < \delta$, $U(f,P_\delta) - L(f,P_\delta) < \varepsilon$, then the integral exists, as the common limit of the upper and lower sums as $\varepsilon \rightarrow 0$. There's lots of other versions of the integral you can motivate the same way, like Stieltjes or Lebesgue.

There's no $dx$ without $\int$, because the symbols are just ornaments. The integral is a limiting process as the norm of the partition goes to zero. The symbols have no magic to them, they're entirely ornaments that suggest something about how the limits work to the reader, with the understanding that the reader knows they are symbols gesturing towards the limiting process. Attaching meaning to the $dx$ in the integral or derivative is a mistake, because it leads you astray from understanding the limiting processes themselves, and why they work or don't.

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The $ dx $ is necessary. It defines the integration variable. for one variable function, we can forget it, but for multivariate functions, we must specify the integration variable.

For example $$\int x^3=\frac{x^4}{4}$$ But $$\int(x^3+y^2)=???$$ $$\int (x^3+y^2)dy=x^3y+\frac{y^3}{3}$$

  • When using the differential operator $d[\cdot]$, you don't need to express the variable of differentiation, one can just algebraically divide by $dx$ after the $d$ operation is complete. I desire to do something similar here. I don't accept that it can't be done, perhaps no one has done it before – eschavez Jun 28 '20 at 22:42
  • This is not a good argument, we could just write the variable under the integral symbol as for the finite sums. – LL 3.14 Jun 28 '20 at 23:02