0

I am reading about the axiom of infinity. One thing I learned is that only with this axiom one is able to define the set of natural numbers. Here is my step-by-step try and I wonder if it is working because the standard definition is such a short-cut that it confuses beginners like me of what it actually means.

First let $x$ be the set whose existence is postulated by the axiom of infinity. By the way: I use the old version of this axiom as it was given by Zermelo, but that should only be a very formal difference to what nowadays is done.

First I define more loosely

$\mathbb N := \{y \mid \text{$y \in x$ & $y$ is in all inductive sets}\}$.

This defined $\mathbb N$ exists because $x$ exists and the axiom schema of separation postulates the existence of a set that is created by subsetting from an existing set.

Now, I’d define a set $I$ of all inductive sets $a$,

$I := \{a \mid \text{$\emptyset \in a$ and if $z \in a$ then $\{z\} \in a$}\}$.

$I$ exists in ZFC, because $x$ exists and one can apply the pairing axiom on $x$ to get $I$ with $x$ and the other inductive sets are just assumptions which does not harm $I$ in any way.

Now we can further formalize:

$\mathbb N :=\left\{y \mid \text{$y \in x$ & $y \in \bigcap_{a \in I} a$}\right\}$

and because $x$ is definitely in $I$ we can waive off the weaker first part of the conjunction and get eventually

$\mathbb N := \left\{y \mid y \in \bigcap_{a \in I} a\right\} = \big\{\emptyset, \{\emptyset\}, \{\{\emptyset\}\},\dots\big\}$.

Pippen
  • 151
  • 2
    "I exists in ZFC, because x exists and one can apply the pairing axiom on x to get I with x and the other inductive sets are just assumptions which does not harm I in any way." That's not right; I is in fact too big to be a set, and should not be used here. What's wrong with your initial definition of the set of all $y\in x$ which are in every inductive set? (Note that we don't need there to be a set of all inductive sets for this to work!) – Noah Schweber Oct 23 '24 at 19:42
  • Seems like your question addresses more the definition of the successor function: S(x) = x U {x}, or S(x) = {x}. Zermelo privided a defition as you use S(a) = {a}.

    "With this definition each nonzero natural number is a singleton set. So, the property of the natural numbers to represent cardinalities is not directly accessible; only the ordinal property (being the n-th element of a sequence) is immediate. Unlike von Neumann's construction, the Zermelo ordinals do not extend to infinite ordinals." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_number#Set-theoretic_definition

    – Artem Hak Oct 23 '24 at 21:30

2 Answers2

3

The common way of constructing $\mathbb{N}$ is as follows:

(I will use your definition of inductive which has "the successor" of the set $x$ to be $\{x\}$; note that the usual definition is that $x^+=x\cup\{x\}$, rather than just $\{x\}$).

Theorem. If $\{X_j\}_{j\in J}$ is a family of inductive sets, then $\bigcap_{j\in J}X_j$ is an inductive set.

Proof. Let $X=\cap X_j$. Each $X_j$ satisfies that $\varnothing\in X_j$ and if $a\in X_j$, then $\{a\}\in X_j$. Therefore, $\varnothing\in X$. If $a\in X$, then $a\in X_j$ for all $j\in J$, hence $\{a\}\in X_j$ for all $j\in J$, hence $\{a\}\in X$. Thus, $X$ is inductive. $\Box$

Let $S$ be an inductive set; we know such a thing exists, by the Axiom of Infinity. Now let $$\mathbb{N}_S = \cap\{T\subseteq S\mid T\text{ is inductive.}\}$$ Note that this makes sense, since the collection of inductive subsets of $S$ is nonempty, since it certainly includes $S$. So this makes sense. In addition, by the Theorem, $\mathbb{N}_S$ is inductive.

This is "the natural numbers of $S$". Obviously it depends on $S$. But it turns out that it actually does not depend on $S$:

Proposition. Let $T$ be any inductive set. Then $\mathbb{N}_S=\mathbb{N}_T$.

Proof. SInce $\mathbb{N}_S$ is inductive, $\mathbb{N}_S\cap T$ is inductive by the Theorem. Thus, $\mathbb{N}_S\cap T$ is an inductive subset of $T$. Therefore, $\mathbb{N}_T\subseteq \mathbb{N}_S\cap T\subseteq\mathbb{N}_S$. A symmetric argument gives $\mathbb{N}_S\subseteq \mathbb{N}_T$. $\Box$

Having proven this, we just define $\mathbb{N}$ to be the set $\mathbb{N}_S$ for any inductive set $S$, since the Proposition shows that we will obtain the same set regardless of which inductive set $T$ we may have started with. This set has the property that it is contained in any inductive set, and so it is the "smallest" inductive set.

This avoids the issue of quantifying over "all inductive sets" or trying to construct the class of all inductive sets (which is not a set).

Arturo Magidin
  • 417,286
  • So I could define: $\mathbb N$ := $\bigcap$ {y $\subseteq$ x | $\emptyset \in$ y and if z $\in$ y then {z} $\in$ y}, considering x to be the set that the infinity axiom postulates? And this definition would be as good as the usual ones you read about? Then I would take it since I understand it. – Pippen Oct 24 '24 at 20:17
  • @Pippen: The axiom of infinity does not postulate a particular set. It just states that "there exists an inductive set". So you can say "Let $x$ be some inductive set". You can then define "the natural numbers" to be the set you describe. However, in order to actually ensure that this set is independent of whatever inductive set $x$ you happen to pick (so that if I pick a different inductive set $x'$, then the set you get and the set I get are the same set), then you need to prove something like my proposition. (And note the issue with your nonstandard definition of "successor") – Arturo Magidin Oct 24 '24 at 20:54
  • But is not the following more simple and as precise than your solution? Let x be some inductive set, given by the axiom of infinity, and I define $\mathbb N$ := {y $\in$ x | $\forall$ z: if z is an inductive set $\to$ y $\in$ z} = {$\emptyset$, {$\emptyset$}, {{$\emptyset$}},…}? If that is correct, how would you write „{y $\in$ x | $\forall$ z: if z is an inductive set $\to$ y $\in$ z}“ as an intersection? You can use your answer space if it takes more explanation because after all it is a beginner question here. – Pippen Oct 25 '24 at 19:59
  • @Pippen: You cannot write that as an intersection because intersections must be indexed by sets, and the collection of all inductive sets is not a set. While you can do the initial definition you provide, you now need to prove that the resulting set is in fact inductive. The construction I give gives it as an easy consequence of the Lemma, which is also used to show it is contained in every inductive set; you need to inline it after the definition. – Arturo Magidin Oct 25 '24 at 20:45
1

Maybe this is the non-obvious detail: Even though the collection of all inductive sets, $I$, is not a set itself, as long as it is non-empty, the intersection of all the sets in it (that is, the intersection of all inductive sets) is a set. By definition, any intersection, even of a class-worth of sets, is a subset of any of the sets in the class. So by the axiom of separation, it is a set, and, in this case, an inductive set. This intersection of all inductive sets, $\omega$, is therefore the smallest inductive set. The axiom of infinity tells you that $I$ is, indeed, non-empty, that at least one inductive set exists.

Another potentially confusing this is, you can actually build any natural number you want even without infinity, all you need is repeated application of pairing. Define $0 = \emptyset$ and then for any $m$ you want, build it up recursively as $n+1 = n \cup \lbrace n\rbrace$. By construction, if $n < m$ it is $n \in m$, so $m$ is the set of all numbers that are smaller than $m$. You only need infinity to show that there is a set that contains all natural numbers.

  • If I is not a set then it is not an object of ZFC. It is kind of like „bird“ in the realm of natural numbers. How could we do an intersection of it in ZFC? If an intersection is a subset of all sets x of a set X but X is not a set in ZFC then all bets are off on what those x are or are not, right? – Pippen Oct 24 '24 at 20:32
  • You do not really need to use proper classes, they just make things simpler to express. To be formal, every class/collection can be rpeplaced by a well-formed formula in the language of ZFC. In general, if $x \in z \leftrightarrow \phi(x)$ then $z$ is not necessarily a set. But $x \in w \leftrightarrow \phi(x) \wedge x \in a$ is a set. An intersection has this form, where $a$ can be any of the "intersectees". – Tony Dolezal Oct 25 '24 at 00:44